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Fantasy » alt.fan.pratchett » [I] Terrorism
[I] Terrorism [message #299464] Do, 13 Juli 2006 20:27
ansh  
Two days ago I got to work and a colleague asked me if I had heard
about the train bombings in Mumbai. I am a summer internee in the US
but I'm Indian and from Bombay and my family lives there. It took me
two hours to get in touch with my mom and dad and much longer to get in
touch with my friends. It was excruciatingly painful to not know if my
sister and cousins (who do take those trains) were all right. Luckily
everyone I know is all right, however, my cousin who is working for the
summer in one of the Mumbai hospitals told me a little bit about the
people who were brought in with injuries. It's horrifying.

I was on the BBC website on their "Have your say" section and I read a
lot of differing views and opinions. The general consensus seems to be
that now Mumbai has taken its place among the list of big cities
targeted by terrorism like New York, London, Madrid, etc. What most
people don't seem to realise is that terrorism in Mumbai (and, indeed,
most of India) has been going on for decades...it's just that nobody's
been paying any attention. I read posts from people saying that the
BBC is rascist and that the attacks in Mumbai are not getting the same
coverage as the attacks in London, New York and Madrid. I do not get
to watch BBC news...I would like to ask people in England whether this
accusation is true.

There is also a lot of ideological finger pointing and accusations and
defensive arguments being hurled around. I just want to say that no
matter who's responsible, attacks in which innocent people are targeted
are wholly unforgiveable.

Thanks.

ansh
Re: [I] Terrorism [message #299475 ] Do, 13 Juli 2006 22:42
Rgemini  
ansh wrote:

> .... Luckily
> everyone I know is all right, however, my cousin who is working for the
> summer in one of the Mumbai hospitals told me a little bit about the
> people who were brought in with injuries. It's horrifying.

I'm glad your folks are OK. Such malevolent cruelty is horrifying,
wherever and whenever it occurs.

> ... I read posts from people saying that the
> BBC is rascist and that the attacks in Mumbai are not getting the same
> coverage as the attacks in London, New York and Madrid. I do not get
> to watch BBC news...I would like to ask people in England whether this
> accusation is true.

It is, a little, but not because it's India ... there are so many
horrifying things going on in the world at the moment that they all vie
for attention. The Middle East, Afghanistan, Darfur ... It's human
nature that things that happen closer to home seem more important. The
Madrid train blasts, when they happened, got more coverage than Mumbai
has but neither got as much as the London bombings. Then you have to
factor in all the political muck that's happening in the UK at present
and taking media attention. The coverage was sympathetic and outraged.

>
> There is also a lot of ideological finger pointing and accusations and
> defensive arguments being hurled around. I just want to say that no
> matter who's responsible, attacks in which innocent people are targeted
> are wholly unforgiveable.

Yes. Unfortunately the perpetrators want to stir up society and set
groups at each others' throats: "Your atrocity against 'my' innocent
people justifies the atrocity I'm about to commit on 'your' innocent
people" - and round and round we go again. I'm not a christian, but
Jesus had the right solution to that kind of thinking.

However, if the perpetrators ARE caught, and really ARE the perpetrators
and can be proved so in an open, fair trial then I believe they should
be executed. Humanely, but terminally.

Rgemini
Re: [I] Terrorism [message #299603 ] Fr, 14 Juli 2006 15:31
Eric Jarvis  
ansh anatwork.kay [at] gmail.com wrote in
<1152815230.789344.299470 [at] s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
> Two days ago I got to work and a colleague asked me if I had heard
> about the train bombings in Mumbai. I am a summer internee in the US
> but I'm Indian and from Bombay and my family lives there. It took me
> two hours to get in touch with my mom and dad and much longer to get in
> touch with my friends. It was excruciatingly painful to not know if my
> sister and cousins (who do take those trains) were all right. Luckily
> everyone I know is all right, however, my cousin who is working for the
> summer in one of the Mumbai hospitals told me a little bit about the
> people who were brought in with injuries. It's horrifying.
>
> I was on the BBC website on their "Have your say" section and I read a
> lot of differing views and opinions. The general consensus seems to be
> that now Mumbai has taken its place among the list of big cities
> targeted by terrorism like New York, London, Madrid, etc. What most
> people don't seem to realise is that terrorism in Mumbai (and, indeed,
> most of India) has been going on for decades...it's just that nobody's
> been paying any attention. I read posts from people saying that the
> BBC is rascist and that the attacks in Mumbai are not getting the same
> coverage as the attacks in London, New York and Madrid. I do not get
> to watch BBC news...I would like to ask people in England whether this
> accusation is true.
>

In a sense yes and in a sense no. The BBC and the better newspapers
regularly carry reports on terrorist attacks in India. There have even
been in depth newspaper articles and TV documentaries covering the
background to such incidents whether it be related to Kashmir, Tamils in
Sri Lanka, or either Muslim or Hindu extremism. The problem is that there
isn't a lot of attention paid by the media compared to many other stories,
and far too many British people are too insular to take any interest.

I don't think it's racism as such these days. It's more a question of the
news agenda being too insular. The BBC doesn't have all that many
permanent foreign correspondents any more, and most of the newspapers are
far worse. So there aren't the staff in India to create human interest
stories anywhere but Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkata and maybe Chennai. India is a
massive country where a lot is happening, but the BBC staff there
currently would struggle to cover Scotland adequately. In the USA,
Australia, Japan, and Europe they can use locally sourced TV footage very
easily to make up the shortfall, that's not so easy in India as yet.

> There is also a lot of ideological finger pointing and accusations and
> defensive arguments being hurled around. I just want to say that no
> matter who's responsible, attacks in which innocent people are targeted
> are wholly unforgiveable.
>

I couldn't agree more. If there's one thing I've learned over the decades
of IRA terrorism it's that terrorism only works if people are terrified.
The best weapon with which to fight terrorism is not being afraid.
Something our government sadly doesn't seem able to get to grips with.

So the message from London to Mumbai has to be "be careful, be calm, be
quick to succour, be slow to judge, be tomorrow much as you were
yesterday, and the terrorists will have lost".

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
Re: [I] Terrorism [message #299607 ] Fr, 14 Juli 2006 16:25
Flesh-eating Dragon  
Eric Jarvis wrote:

> I couldn't agree more. If there's one thing I've learned over the decades
> of IRA terrorism it's that terrorism only works if people are terrified.
> The best weapon with which to fight terrorism is not being afraid.
> Something our government sadly doesn't seem able to get to grips with.

Here in .au, the government came up with a slogan about terrorism,
according to which we are supposed to be "alert but not alarmed".
Someone or other wrote a song parodying this slogan. The final chorus
goes: "Alert but not alarmed, alert but not alarmed. We'll have no
time to be alarmed. We'll be too bloody scared".

I haven't the faintest clue who wrote it, nor what any of the other
words are, but it was played once on _Australia All Over_ (radio
show).

Adrian.
Re: [I] Terrorism [message #299612 ] Fr, 14 Juli 2006 17:49
jester  
On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:31:20 +0100, Eric Jarvis
<eric [at] ericjarvis.co.uk> wrote:
>
>I couldn't agree more. If there's one thing I've learned over the decades
>of IRA terrorism it's that terrorism only works if people are terrified.
>The best weapon with which to fight terrorism is not being afraid.
>Something our government sadly doesn't seem able to get to grips with.

Frightened people are more likely to give up their civil liberties, and
thus be easier to control. See .us since 2001 and .uk since at 2005 and
possibly earlier for details.

--
Andy Brown
Goto, n.:
A programming tool that exists to allow structured programmers
to complain about unstructured programmers. -- Ray Simard
Re: [I] Terrorism [message #299643 ] Fr, 14 Juli 2006 20:51
Anke  
jester wrote:
>
> Frightened people are more likely to give up their civil
> liberties, and thus be easier to control. See .us since
> 2001 and .uk since at 2005 and possibly earlier for details.
>

Like this?
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell
them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for
lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It
works the same in any country." - Nazi Reich Marshal
Hermann G=F6ring during the Nuremberg Trials (according to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four )

Anke
Re: [I] Terrorism [message #299648 ] Fr, 14 Juli 2006 21:29
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
The time: 14 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: "8'FED" <dragon [at] netyp.com.au>

> Here in .au, the government came up with a slogan about
> terrorism, according to which we are supposed to be "alert
> but not alarmed".

Yep, that sounds like a government slogan all right. Is it
just me or do most government announcememnts about terrorism
sound like:

"The important thing is not to panic. Not to panic about the
fact there could be a terrorist behind you RIGHT NOW!!!"

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06
Re: [I] Terrorism [message #299756 ] Sa, 15 Juli 2006 12:57
Rhiannon S  
"Eric Jarvis" <eric [at] ericjarvis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f21ad0525c2b1fb989dd6 [at] cenote.gkhs.net...

> > I couldn't agree more. If there's one thing I've learned over the
decades
> of IRA terrorism it's that terrorism only works if people are terrified.
> The best weapon with which to fight terrorism is not being afraid.
> Something our government sadly doesn't seem able to get to grips with.

Oh I think Blair knows it. He also knows that really the terrorists aren't
that big a threat and we're not really in any big struggle. He wants and
afraid population because that's one that's easier to control and easier to
push things onto. A scared population is focused on one thing, and he can
use that to push anything on us because we wont notice anything that's not
about what we're scared of.
--
Rhiannon_s:
Just a scientific experiment gone horribly wrong.
Re: [I] Terrorism [message #299802 ] Sa, 15 Juli 2006 20:26
raltbos  
"Anke" <anke.wehner [at] gmail.com> wrote:

> jester wrote:
> >
> > Frightened people are more likely to give up their civil
> > liberties, and thus be easier to control. See .us since
> > 2001 and .uk since at 2005 and possibly earlier for details.
>
> Like this?
> "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
> bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell
> them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for
> lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It
> works the same in any country." - Nazi Reich Marshal
> Hermann G=F6ring

Yes. In many respects, that is very much like the current US government.
Not in all, certainly, but enough to be scary.

Richard
Re: [I] Terrorism [message #299811 ] Sa, 15 Juli 2006 21:08
Aggie Angst  
ansh wrote:
> Two days ago I got to work and a colleague asked me if I had heard
> about the train bombings in Mumbai. I am a summer internee in the US
> but I'm Indian and from Bombay and my family lives there. It took me
> two hours to get in touch with my mom and dad and much longer to get
> in touch with my friends. It was excruciatingly painful to not know
> if my sister and cousins (who do take those trains) were all right.
> Luckily everyone I know is all right, however, my cousin who is
> working for the summer in one of the Mumbai hospitals told me a
> little bit about the people who were brought in with injuries. It's
> horrifying.

I'm glad your family is okay. I know that must have been hell for you.
The world is a very scary place these days.

Aggie
Re: [I] Terrorism [message #299816 ] Sa, 15 Juli 2006 21:28
news0607  
Aggie Angst wrote:
> I'm glad your family is okay. I know that must have been hell for you.
> The world is a very scary place these days.
>
Only if you let yourself be scared. The odds of becoming the victim of a
terrorist attack are negligible compared to all the other ways to die or
get injured.

Michael
Re: [I] Terrorism [message #299839 ] So, 16 Juli 2006 01:05
Julian Hall  
On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:57:30 +0100, Rhiannon S wrote:

> A scared population is focused on one thing, and he can
> use that to push anything on us because we wont notice anything that's not
> about what we're scared of.

Also a population that concentrates on terrorism doesn't concentrate on
his government's's latest gaffes.
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
"I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home"
Re: [I] Terrorism [message #299858 ] So, 16 Juli 2006 05:39
Aggie Angst  
Julian Hall wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:57:30 +0100, Rhiannon S wrote:
>
>> A scared population is focused on one thing, and he can
>> use that to push anything on us because we wont notice anything
>> that's not about what we're scared of.
>
> Also a population that concentrates on terrorism doesn't concentrate
> on his government's's latest gaffes.

Of which there is a very long list. :p

Aggie
Re: [I] Terrorism [message #299920 ] So, 16 Juli 2006 17:22
nomail  
> The problem is that there isn't a lot of attention paid by the media
> compared to many other stories, and far too many British people are too
> insular to take any interest.

I don't think it's entirely that. There are just too many bush (small
"b") wars and too much "bush terrorism" to be able to follow it all, let
alone care about it. So a lot of it is lost between the cracks.

I was in Ecuador a while back. While I was there, they had a rebellion.
Probably didn't make any of the papers here, beyond a brief blurb on
page six. Probably won't make the history books there, either, beyond a
(short) footnote about the presidency of Sr. Febres-Cordero. What it
should have made was the comedy circuits. How many week-old rebellions
can pack up in the middle of the night and fly to another airport? (I
happened to be living less than a km away from that airport-- after the
first day, they got bus services back up and running normally, so it
didn't bother anyone.) It finally ended without any casualties I heard
of, and possibly even no shots being fired.
Re: [I] Terrorism [message #300054 ] Mo, 17 Juli 2006 13:08
Julian Hall  
On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 03:39:02 +0000, Aggie Angst wrote:

>> Also a population that concentrates on terrorism doesn't concentrate
>> on his government's's latest gaffes.
>
> Of which there is a very long list. :p
>
> Aggie

Sometimes you need to flip several cons to decide which gaffe to pick. Or
the old standby eeny meeny miney mo.. ;)
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
"I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home"
Re: [I] Terrorism [message #300055 ] Mo, 17 Juli 2006 13:10
Julian Hall  
On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 21:28:09 +0200, Michael J. Schülke wrote:

> Only if you let yourself be scared. The odds of becoming the victim of a
> terrorist attack are negligible compared to all the other ways to die or
> get injured.
>
> Michael

That does depend on to an extent on your location, however the underlying
concept of not allowing your life to be affected by it is correct.
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
"I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home"
Re: [I] Terrorism [message #300061 ] Mo, 17 Juli 2006 12:53
Tamara  
Michael J. Schülke wrote:
> Aggie Angst wrote:
>> I'm glad your family is okay. I know that must have been hell for you.
>> The world is a very scary place these days.
>>
> Only if you let yourself be scared. The odds of becoming the victim of a
> terrorist attack are negligible compared to all the other ways to die or
> get injured.


It is more frightening from the outside. This is not about being scared
when walking down the street. This is about worrying for the well being
of family and friends, and being unable to do anything to help or make
it better. Or worse, *not knowing* how they are.

If I was in Israel right now, I'd be working in an office and probably
wouldn't feel the war all that much. I'm not in Israel, so all I can do
is sit here and worry for my family and friends.
If I were there I would be out in the protests, I would try to make my
voice heard and change things. But I wouldn't be as worried about my
well being, or that of my family and friends, because I would be able to
do *something*, *anything*. Here I can only watch and wait.

It is the helplessness that comes from being so far away that makes the
worrying so exhausting.


tamara,
....
--
tamara at blue-infinity dot net


"From now on, I'll describe the cities to you," the Khan had said, "in
your journeys you will see if they exist."
Italo Calvino, Invisible Cities
Re: [I] Terrorism [message #301376 ] Di, 18 Juli 2006 04:21
Aggie Angst  
tamara wrote:
> Michael J. Schülke wrote:
>> Aggie Angst wrote:
>>> I'm glad your family is okay. I know that must have been hell for
>>> you. The world is a very scary place these days.
>>>
>> Only if you let yourself be scared. The odds of becoming the victim
>> of a terrorist attack are negligible compared to all the other ways
>> to die or get injured.
>
>
> It is more frightening from the outside. This is not about being
> scared when walking down the street. This is about worrying for the
> well being of family and friends, and being unable to do anything to
> help or make it better. Or worse, *not knowing* how they are.

You seem to be doing as well as can be expected. I know I'd be a nervous
wreck.
I just about am anyway and I don't even have people over there. You have my
best wishes.

Aggie
Re: Terrorism [message #301742 ] Mi, 19 Juli 2006 17:32
ansh  
tamara wrote:
> Michael J. Sch=FClke wrote:
> > Aggie Angst wrote:
> >> I'm glad your family is okay. I know that must have been hell for you.
> >> The world is a very scary place these days.
> >>
> > Only if you let yourself be scared. The odds of becoming the victim of a
> > terrorist attack are negligible compared to all the other ways to die or
> > get injured.
>
>
> It is more frightening from the outside. This is not about being scared
> when walking down the street. This is about worrying for the well being
> of family and friends, and being unable to do anything to help or make
> it better. Or worse, *not knowing* how they are.
>
<snip>

I completely agree. Haven't been able to get onto afp very often over
the past week or so...things have come up; but thanks to everyone for
their best wishes.

Tamara, I hope that all your family and friends are safe in Israel
right now. It's hellish not being with people at times like these.

Ansh


>
> tamara,
> ...
> --
> tamara at blue-infinity dot net
>
>
> "From now on, I'll describe the cities to you," the Khan had said, "in
> your journeys you will see if they exist."
> Italo Calvino, Invisible Cities
Vorheriges Thema:[I]Schelling Points in London
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